FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 12"
m (Bot: Automated text replacement (-\#\* +#)) |
m (→top: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}) |
||
| (2 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
| − | {{ | + | {{Main Page}} |
{{H1 | {{H1 | ||
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 12 | |L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 12 | ||
| Line 10: | Line 10: | ||
|>=[[../Chapter 13|Chapter 13]] | |>=[[../Chapter 13|Chapter 13]] | ||
}} | }} | ||
| − | + | [[File:Chart AM chapter 12.png|center|frame]] | |
<onlyinclude> | <onlyinclude> | ||
{{H2 | {{H2 | ||
| Line 83: | Line 83: | ||
The author states that "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death was made evident in his statement 'When the time comes to burn and lay waste our improvements, if any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down.'" | The author states that "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death was made evident in his statement 'When the time comes to burn and lay waste our improvements, if any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down.'" | ||
|authorsources=<br> | |authorsources=<br> | ||
| − | |||
* Young quoted in Waite, 50. | * Young quoted in Waite, 50. | ||
*See {{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=38|vol=5|start=232|date=13 Sept 1857}} | *See {{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|disc=38|vol=5|start=232|date=13 Sept 1857}} | ||
| Line 140: | Line 139: | ||
Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter." | Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter." | ||
|authorsources=<br> | |authorsources=<br> | ||
| − | |||
*''Dimick B. Huntington Journal'', September 20, 1857. | *''Dimick B. Huntington Journal'', September 20, 1857. | ||
*{{CrossRef:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=170a}} | *{{CrossRef:Bagley:Blood of the Prophets|pages=170a}} | ||
Latest revision as of 14:10, 13 April 2024
FAIR Answers—back to home page
Response to claims made in Chapter 12: "Camp Scott, November 16, 1857"
| Chapter 11 | A FAIR Analysis of: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, a work by author: Sally Denton
|
Chapter 13 |
Response to claims made in American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, "Chapter 12: Camp Scott, November 16, 1857"
Jump to Subtopic:
- Response to claim: 165 - Brigham Young had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows"
- Response to claim: 165 - Brigham did not preach the sermon at the church meeting attended by Van Vliet because he was "too furious to conduct the service"
- Response to claim: 165 - Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet"
- Response to claim: 167 - "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death"
- Response to claim: 172 - "droves of Saints leaving California for Utah" and "a matching number leaving Utah of a crisis of conscience spurred by the events of Mountain Meadows"
- Response to claim: 172 - Ann Eliza Young claims that she "knew instinctively, as did many others, that something was being hidden from the mass of the people"
- Response to claim: 173 - It is claimed that Brigham Young instructed John D. Lee to write a letter laying the blame for the massacre on the Indians
- Response to claim: 173 - Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter"
- Response to claim: 176, 180 = Colonel Thomas Kane is portrayed as arrogant, effeminate, a hypochondriac, and with delusions of fame
- Response to claim: 186 - Prior to the massacre, George A. Smith is claimed to "have carried orders to Cedar City leaders to incite their people to avenge the blood of the prophets"
- Response to claim: 186 - George A. Smith was "sent south not to learn the truth, but to devise an explanation for church leaders could provide to external enemies..."
Response to claim: 165 - Brigham Young had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The author claims that during meetings with U.S. Army Quartermaster Captain Stewart Van Vliet, Brigham Young had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows," and that the "Mormon leaders worried that if van Vliet relayed news of the situation to Johnston, an invasion of Utah Territory would be expedited."Author's sources:
- No source provided for this particular claim, although the following citation is Van Vliet quoted in T.B.H. Stenhouse, Rocky Mountain Saints: a full and complete history of the Mormons, from the first vision of Joseph Smith to the last courtship of Brigham Young (New York: D. Appleton and Company, 1873), 357.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
It was virtually impossible for anyone in Salt Lake to have heard of the Massacre (which happened on 11 September) by the time Van Vliet left on 14 Sept, or last met with Brigham Young on 13 Sept.
Others often discussed in conjunction with the Mountain Meadows Massacre
Jump to Subtopic:
Response to claim: 165 - Brigham did not preach the sermon at the church meeting attended by Van Vliet because he was "too furious to conduct the service"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The author claims that Brigham did not preach the sermon at the church meeting attended by Van Vliet because he was "too furious to conduct the service."Author's sources:
- No source provided. Likely Stenhouse.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is false
Brigham actually did preach two sermons that day (13 September 1857).- See: Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 5:226-231.
- See: Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 5:231-236.
Reviewer Robert Crocket notes, "Denton’s failure to know of Young’s sermons suggests a rather light review of her secondary sources. On 13 September 1857, in the Bowery, Brigham Young indeed said he was too angry to preach but then filled the day with two lengthy sermons nonetheless. Regardless of who spoke, I would have imagined that anybody writing about this event would have taken time to examine the Journal of Discourses to see what was actually said with Van Vliet in attendance." [1]
Response to claim: 165 - Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The author claims that Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet when he said "if the government dare to force the issue, I shall not hold the Indians by the wrist any longer...you may tell the government to stop all emigration across the continent, for the Indians will kill all who attempt it."Author's sources:
- Bancroft, 505.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is false
The author just said earlier that Brigham had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows." Now she's saying that Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference" to it!
Response to claim: 167 - "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The author states that "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death was made evident in his statement 'When the time comes to burn and lay waste our improvements, if any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down.'"Author's sources:
- Young quoted in Waite, 50.
- See Brigham Young, (13 Sept 1857) Journal of Discourses 5:232.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
The author uses a secondary source, when she could have easily verified Brigham's words in the Journal of Discourses. In context, Brigham's word assume a different tone. Immediately following the phrase quoted by the author, Brigham says "Now the faint-hearted can go in peace; but should that time come, they must not interfere." This is not a threat of death to those who would not participate.
Question: Would those that defied Brigham Young be "sheared down" and put to death?
Those who make this claim quote only a fragment of Brigham's speech: He was speaking of military necessary in the event of retreat before the invading U.S. Army
It is claimed that "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death was made evident in his statement 'When the time comes to burn and lay waste our improvements, if any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down.'" The quote is taken from its context. Brigham was speaking of military necessary in the event of retreat before the invading U.S. Army.
As is typical in such cases, those who make this claim quote only a fragment of Brigham's speech. The more complete text reads:
- ...I have told you that if there is any man or woman that is not willing to destroy anything and everything of their property that would be of use to an enemy, if left, I wanted them to go out of the Territory; and I again say so to-day; for when the time comes to burn and lay waste our improvements, if any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down; for "judgment will be laid to the line and righteousness to the plummet." Now the faint-hearted can go in peace; but should that time come, they must not interfere. Before I will suffer what I have in times gone by, there shall not be one building, nor one foot of lumber, nor a stick, nor a tree, nor a particle of grass and hay, that will burn, left in reach of our enemies. I am sworn, if driven to extremity, to utterly lay waste, in the name of Israel's God....
- I naturally dislike to have any trouble, and would not, were I not obliged to; but we are obliged to defend ourselves against the persecution of our oppressors, or have our constitutional rights rent from us, and have ourselves destroyed.... If the people prefer it, they may stop their improvements and take care of their wheat, and cache a supply of grain, flour, &c., where no other persons can find it; though we can raise grain here all the time,—yes, all the time....We have no desire to kill men, but we wish to keep the devils from killing us....I am not speaking of the Government, but of the corrupt administrators of the Government.[2]
Brigham was anticipating the need for a 'scorched earth' policy against the invading U.S. army.
Brigham makes the following statements that the critics ignore:
- Those who do not wish to destroy their property before the army arrives may leave in peace.
- Those who remain will be left alone, if they do not interfere with the military necessity of scorched earth, should it be necessary.
- This would only happen "if driven to extremity."
- Brigham does not want trouble or war, or killing, but he fears violence against his people—for which they had ample precedent.
- Brigham provides the option of caching their goods out of the army's reach rather than destroying them.
- Brigham's quarrel is not with the United States, but with "corrupt administrators."
The only threat made is to those who, under military conditions, actively seek to resist the legal order of the territorial governor and militia commander to refuse aid and supplies to a military enemy. The property could not be preserved in such a case, because it would either be destroyed or appropriated by the enemy army. Military and militia commanders in all ages would have done nothing less, and Brigham's stance was moderate and merciful—no one was compelled to remain, no one was compelled to destroy anything.
But, if retreat became necessary, he would not allow supplies or shelter to fall into the hands of the enemy, which could cost Utahan lives if the war turned hot. This is not a dictatorship or megalomania; it was simply military prudence.
Response to claim: 172 - "droves of Saints leaving California for Utah" and "a matching number leaving Utah of a crisis of conscience spurred by the events of Mountain Meadows"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The author claims that "droves of Saints leaving California for Utah" and "a matching number leaving Utah of a crisis of conscience spurred by the events of Mountain Meadows" were "doomed to pass over the site of the slaughter."Author's sources:
- No source provided.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
The author needs to provide some evidence for this supposed "crisis of conscience."
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
Ann Eliza Young claims that she "knew instinctively, as did many others, that something was being hidden from the mass of the people."Author's sources:
- Ann Eliza Young, Wife No. 19, or the Story of a Life in Bondage...(Hartford, Conn.: Custin, Gilman & Company, 1876), 229.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
So now, Ann Eliza's intuitions are serving as evidence. Ann Eliza was writing later in life as an anti-Mormon lecturer, and used all the anti-Mormon tropes.- See Hugh W. Nibley, Tinkling Cymbals and Sounding Brass: The Art of Telling Tales About Joseph Smith and Brigham Young (Vol. 11 of the Collected Works of Hugh Nibley), edited by David J. Whittaker, (Salt Lake City, Utah : Deseret Book Company ; Provo, Utah : Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1991),413–468. ISBN 0875795161. GL direct link GL direct link
Response to claim: 173 - It is claimed that Brigham Young instructed John D. Lee to write a letter laying the blame for the massacre on the Indians
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
It is claimed that Brigham Young instructed John D. Lee to write a letter laying the blame for the massacre on the Indians.Author's sources:
- No source provided.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
As noted on the notes for p. 142, local leaders had planned to blame the Indians long before Brigham Young even knew of their intentions, or instructed them to leave the immigrants alone.
Response to claim: 173 - Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter."Author's sources:
- Dimick B. Huntington Journal, September 20, 1857.
- Compare treatment in Blood of the Prophets: p. 170a.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
The author again follows Bagley completely uncritically, and makes the same errors.
Response to claim: 176, 180 - Colonel Thomas Kane is portrayed as arrogant, effeminate, a hypochondriac, and with delusions of fame
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
Colonel Thomas Kane is portrayed as arrogant, effeminate, a hypochondriac, and with delusions of fame.Author's sources:
- Compare treatment in Blood of the Prophets: p. 198.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
The author seems to rely heavily on Bagley's treatment here.
Others often discussed in conjunction with the Mountain Meadows Massacre
Jump to Subtopic:
Response to claim: 186 - Prior to the massacre, George A. Smith is claimed to "have carried orders to Cedar City leaders to incite their people to avenge the blood of the prophets"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
Prior to the massacre, George A. Smith is claimed to "have carried orders to Cedar City leaders to incite their people to avenge the blood of the prophets."Author's sources:
- No source provided. (Likely Bagley)
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim is false
There is no evidence to support this claim.
Others often discussed in conjunction with the Mountain Meadows Massacre
Jump to Subtopic:
Response to claim: 186 - George A. Smith was "sent south not to learn the truth, but to devise an explanation for church leaders could provide to external enemies..."
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
George A. Smith was "sent south not to learn the truth, but to devise an explanation for church leaders could provide to external enemies..."Author's sources:
- Will Bagley, Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows (University of Oklahoma Press, 2002), 212.
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
This is simply speculation on the part of the author and her source.
Notes
- ↑ Robert D. Crockett, "The Denton Debacle (Review of: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, September 1857)," FARMS Review 16/1 (2004): 135–148. off-site
- ↑ Brigham Young, (13 Sept 1857) Journal of Discourses 5:232.