Holy Ghost/Problems with revelation

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Questions

== One critical website asserts: "Our conclusion with our observations and study is that virtually all of the "burning bosoms" are emotion based and they stem from meaningful situations based upon our experiences in life."

To see citations to the critical sources for these claims, click here

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Answer

== Critics are just simply wrong if they think they can prove or disprove the existence of GOD, or the church, with statistical information. All it takes is to receive a personal testimony.

• The problem is not revelation or the problem is not with God, but the problem is caused by the individual who tries to tempt the Lord his God, with tests and statistics.
• Asking in prayer for historical issues not found in LDS official canon is like asking: Did Jesus get married? Where is the city of Nephi? Did World War II happen? (That's why we go to the library to find out if World War II happened.) In other words, it's like asking God to reveal new doctrine. Only the prophet will receive answers for the church. However, we can ask if historical events happened or not, if they are already revealed in LDS official canon. For example, asking to know if the Book of Mormon is true.
• If God were to reveal historical facts to the people, then there would be no need for school, or even the Neal A. Maxwell Institute.

• How Do I Recognize and Understand the Spirit?

For more information see,

Test 1

The MormonThink website states,

"Stake Patriarchs are generally considered some of the most spiritual people in the church due to the nature of their calling of being guided by the spirit to give patriarchal blessings. Although we would expect patriarchal blessings to vary depending upon who gave them, there is one thing that should not change. Everyone receives the tribe that they are descended from. The tribal designation appears to be spiritual label as opposed to actual genealogy as members of the same family can come from different tribes. However the tribe given should not change if you received a second patriarchal blessing.

Almost everyone is from the tribe of Ephraim, however perhaps 1 in 20 people are from the tribe of Manasseh or another rare tribe. We propose finding 50 people from a tribe other than Ephraim and have those people obtain a second patriarchal blessing from a different patriarch and see if they give them the same somewhat uncommon tribe that they each received when they got their first patriarchal blessing"

This test would be ridiculous, it wouldn't work. Just like Jesus Christ told the devil, after the devil asked him to cast himself down, " 6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." (Matthew 4:6-7). Critics have to think that if this is God's church, surely God won't be pleased with this, especially for asking a second patriarchal blessing just to play games. So why would critics want to make such test, to see if this is real or not? Surely anyone who sincerely wanted to find out if this was the true church or not, or if revelation is real or not, wouldn't attempt such method.

If this test proves the patriarch's calling, it will also prove that the church is true, then there would be no need for personal testimony or faith. Can we imagine the FoxNews reporting that statistical results proved the church? Would any stake president, relief society president, or even general authority, support this test? Would they get excited, while waiting for the results?

So far, the test has not been made. If God allows critics to start such test, Latter Day Saints should not get surprise with the results.

Test 2

The MormonThink website states,

"Find 50 good, spiritual Latter-Day Saints that are very righteous but do not know the more disturbing details of our church's history. Ask each one to pray about whether or not certain events really happened and see if the spirit guides them to the correct answer. The questions would have to be ones that the answers are definitely known and agreed to by the church leaders but seem very unlikely to faithful but naive members. It would also have to be established that these members don't already know about the actual history of the events being asked about. For example a question might be to ask somebody about the temple ceremony before 1990 and see if they would correctly answer whether or not the saints really performed those rituals. Or say that some critics contend that Joseph married some women that were already married and see if they agree with those statements. If the members were really inspired by the Holy Ghost to answer the disturbing questions correctly, that they would have otherwise thought were in error, then this would lend credibility to the idea that the spirit can really help people ascertain the truth. We personally have witnessed faithful members saying such things as 'they know' Joseph didn't marry 14 year-old girls and women already married to other men because they received a confirmation of the spirit as such. Yet, they were wrong. A more formal study using this approach would be very interesting"

Critics did not make it clear if the faithful members prayed about this issues.(It's impossible to know if the anonymous critics are being honest with us or not, they can pretty much say anything, that they saw this or heard this, so it really doesn't matter what they say they witnessed)

However, assuming that faithful members did say that they received a spiritual confirmation about this issues, it could mean many things, and we should consider this points:

1) Instead of receiving an answer that this historical issues are false, they may have rather received a confirmation that Joseph Smith was a prophet. They may have just interpreted the revelation differently.

2) In fact Joseph Smith didn't marry 14 year old girls. Historically, he only married one.

3) Joseph Smith didn't marry women that were already married, in a earthly sense. Just like Bushman said, ""main point as always was that he was not committing adultery, nor was he practicing 'spiritual wifeism,' another name for polygamy. To Joseph's enemies, the speech was blatant hypocrisy, but in his own mind, priesthood plural marriage was based on another principle than polygamy." (Bushman, p. 538)So in this sense, we can even say that Joseph Smith did not have multiple wives.

4) We don't know the mind of God, women that were already married got sealed to the prophet, but its possible that Joseph may have gotten sealed to them, for and in favor of their earthly husbands, including nonmembers. (Like Baptism for the death, to illustrate an example). Which the practice would be like an "Abrahamic Test".

5) God has yet many more things to reveal to us, and their are many things that we don't know yet.

6) Sometimes, things are not true in a sense. Their can be different perspectives of historical facts and events, as described above.

7) One must also consider that this issues are not important for our salvation. We don't have to know everything to accomplishing the mission of the church, which is following the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

8) One should get a personal testimony to find out if the church is true or not. We shouldn't just only rely on what other people say.

9)Some members don't expect some things about a prophet, and will usually dismiss what they don't expect, because they already have a testimony that the church is true, and they have received a spiritual confirmation that the prophet is of GOD.

10) See statement by Elder Dallin H. Oaks below

Finding 50 members to pray about historical events

11) Important issues have to do with our security and our progression here on earth, that lead people to have a successful life. (Example: questions if or not to serve a mission?, who to marry?, what to do in a problem?, praying for reasons mentioned in Alma 34:18-28)

For issues that don't have anything with the Gospel, or personal progression, or personal life, Latter-Day Saints should not ask GOD about them(they can, but should not expect an answer). It would be like asking GOD, how many stars are in the universe, or if the Big Bang occurred. What God has already revealed to us in the scriptures is enough, and we don't need to know more for our salvation and have a spiritually successful life. When God has something new to revealed for our salvation and for his church, and our progression, he will do it by his prophets.

12) God can reveal new portions of truth to a specific individual when/if he wants to(usually truths that will bless the life of others and cause them to be better persons), but God does not answer prayers or gives knowledge for things that we don't have to know. God will revealed new truths (such as new commandments) that will be required for salvation and progression as a church, by his prophets.

13) "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask God" (James 1:5), does not refer to ask about vain things of the world, or something that we don't need to know. 2 Nephi clarifies this scripture

2 Nephi 4:35:

"Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen."

• not asking amiss could mean not to pray insincerely but could also mean not asking anything contrary and against the will of God, or for knowledge that has not yet been revealed. Such as asking: when is the Second Coming going to be?

14) If issues, like polygamy or the Word of Wisdom, bother a member or investigator, they should ask GOD if Joseph Smith was a prophet, instead of asking if Joseph Smith did this or that. That's what the LDS missionaries do, they invite the investigator to ask GOD if Joseph Smith was a prophet, rather than asking God if Joseph Smith did this or that.

Prophet Ezra Taft Benson taught: “We are to use the Book of Mormon in handling objections to the Church. . . . “. . . All objections, whether they be on abortion, plural marriage, seventh-day worship, etc., basically hinge on whether Joseph Smith and his successors were and are prophets of God receiving divine revelation. . . “. . . The only problem the objector has to resolve for himself is whether the Book of Mormon is true. For if the Book of Mormon is true, then Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was his prophet, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and it is being led today by a prophet receiving revelation. “Our main task is to declare the gospel and do it effectively. We are not obligated to answer every objection. Every man eventually is backed up to the wall of faith, and there he must make his stand” (A Witness and a Warning, 4–5).

Elder Dallin H. Oaks stated:

“[A person may have] a strong desire to be led by the Spirit of the Lord but . . . unwisely extends that desire to the point of wanting to be led in all things. A desire to be led by the Lord is a strength, but it needs to be accompanied by an understanding that our Heavenly Father leaves many decisions for our personal choices. Personal decision making is one of the sources of the growth we are meant to experience in mortality. Persons who try to shift all decision making to the Lord and plead for revelation in every choice will soon find circumstances in which they pray for guidance and don't receive it. For example, this is likely to occur in those numerous circumstances in which the choices are trivial or either choice is acceptable. “We should study things out in our minds, using the reasoning powers our Creator has placed within us. Then we should pray for guidance and act upon it if we receive it. If we do not receive guidance, we should act upon our best judgment. Persons who persist in seeking revelatory guidance on subjects on which the Lord has not chosen to direct us may concoct an answer out of their own fantasy or bias, or they may even receive an answer through the medium of false revelation” (“Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall,” Ensign, Oct. 1994, 13–14)

• As we can see, when a member says he/she received revelation, is not always necessarily true.

President Howard W. Hunter said:

“Let me offer a word of caution. . . . I think if we are not careful . . . , we may begin to try to counterfeit the true influence of the Spirit of the Lord by unworthy and manipulative means. I get concerned when it appears that strong emotion or free-flowing tears are equated with the presence of the Spirit. Certainly the Spirit of the Lord can bring strong emotional feelings, including tears, but that outward manifestation ought not to be confused with the presence of the Spirit itself” (The Teachings of Howard W. Hunter, 184)

How can we confirm spiritual experiences

Instead of using statistical tests, we can confirm spiritual experiences by

• keep praying to receive a confirmation answer
• Miracles
• Looking at the results once you put Gospel Principles in practice
• Life Changes
• President and counselors, family members, missionary companions can pray about important decisions, and can confirm the answer, if everyone involved get the same answer.

Preach my Gospel states: " Discuss your decisions and conclusions with your companion, your district leader, or your mission president when appropriate" Members of the church can also apply the same principle. ^[1]

• Every person is different, and has his/her own circumstances. God would give each person what they need and persuade them to believe. What God gives to an individual, sometimes only works to the individual, and not someone else.
• Latter-Day Saints may sometimes have thoughts that only come from the brain, and can cause them believe that certain things are true/not true, are suppose to be/are not suppose to be, this is the right person/not the right person . However, do most Latter-Day Saints, that though to have had a revelation (but later discover that it was not revelation), was it as strong as the experiences that lead them to true conversion? The answer is an obvious no, (not suggesting to make statistics out of this). Tools like the Book of Mormon can lead a person to get up to undeniable spiritual experiences, that cause a true conversion.

== Notes ==

1. [note]  Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service (2004), 98