View source for Question: When did the Methodists acquire property near Palmyra to hold their camp meetings?

{{FairMormon}}
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==Question: When did the Methodists acquire property near Palmyra to hold their camp meetings?==
===The Methodists' acquisition of property on Vienna Road in July 1821===
Some wish to discount the story of the First Vision by asserting that Joseph's claim that the "unusual excitement" about religion that "commenced with the Methodists" could not have occurred. Specifically, it is claimed that Methodist camp meetings would not have occurred until after July 1821, since the Methodists did not acquire property in the area until that time.

The Wikipedia article "First Vision" (as of May 18, 2009) contained the unsupported assertion in a footnote (the assertion that this was Joseph's "first dabble with Methodism" has since been removed):
<blockquote>
Bushman, 69-70. The Methodists did not acquire property on the Vienna Road until July 1821, so it is likely that Smith's first dabble with Methodism occurred during the 1824-25 revival in Palmyra. 
</blockquote>

The Bushman reference (''Rough Stone Rolling'') states nothing about the Methodists' acquisition of property, nor does it claim that Joseph's "first dabble" with Methodism occurred during the 1824 revival. The statement was simply asserted by the editor of the wiki article. (Note: Sometime prior to September 2009, another Wikipedia editor has since replaced the unsupported assertion above with the citation by Dr. Matzko below).

Matzko makes the same assertion regarding the property on Vienna Road, however, he backs up it with a citation. According to Matzko:
<blockquote>
Since the Methodists did not acquire property on the Vienna Road until July 1821, the camp meetings were almost
certainly held after that date. [citing Wesley Walters, "A Reply to Dr. Bushman," ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'' 4, no. 1 (Spring 1969): 99.]
</blockquote>

===The Methodists were already holding "camp meetings" in 1820===
In contrast to the Wikipedia article, however, Matzko does provide a balancing reference to the 1820 Methodist camp meeting: 
<blockquote>
D. Michael Quinn argues that, on the contrary, a Methodist camp meeting of 1820 can be fairly interpreted as the religious revival to which Joseph Smith refers and that Methodists typically only asked permission to use property for camp meetings rather than purchase the land.<ref>{{DialogueP | author=D. Michael Quinn | article=Joseph Smith's Experience of a Methodist "Camp Meeting" in 1820|date=December 20, 2006|num=3|pdf=http://dialoguejournal.com/excerpts/e4.pdf}} expanded version ("definitive") (accessed March 6, 2007).</ref>palm
</blockquote>

One need not refer to Quinn, however, to demonstrate that at least one Methodist camp meeting took play near Palymra in 1820. The ''Palymra Register'' notes the occurrence of a Methodist camp meeting in the area in June 1820. From the ''Palmyra Register'' June 28, 1820:
<blockquote>
''Effects of Drunkenness.''&mdash;DIED at the house of Mr. Robert M'Collum, in this town, on the 26th inst. ''James Couser'', aged about forty years. The deceased, we are informed, arrived at Mr. M'Collum's house the evening preceding, from a camp-meeting which was held in this vicinity, in a state of intoxication. He with his companion who was also in the same debasing condition, called for supper, which was granted. They both stayed all night&mdash;called for breakfast next morning&mdash;when notified that it was ready, the deceased was found wrestling with his companion, whom he flung with the greatest ease,&mdash;he suddenly sunk down upon a bench,&mdash;was taken with an epileptic fit, and immediately expires.&mdash;It is supposed he obtained his liquor, which was no doubt the cause of his death, at the Camp-ground, where, it is a notorious fact, the intemperate, the lewd and dissolute part of the community too frequently resort for no better object, than to gratify their base propensities.<ref>''Palmyra Register'' (June 28, 1820): 2.</ref>
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We find in the subsequent issue that the Methodist's objected to the paper's implication of what happened at their camp meeting, and the ''Register'' published something of a retraction. From the ''Palmyra Register'' July 5, 1820:
<blockquote>
"'''Plain Truth'''" is received. By this communication, as well as by the remarks of some of our neighbors who belong to the Society of Methodists, we perceive that our remarks accompanying the notice of the unhappy death of James Couser, contained in our last, have not been correctly understood. "Plain truth" says, we committed "an error in point of fact," in saying the Couser "obtained his liquor at the camp-ground." By this expression we did not mean to insinuate, that he obtained it within the enclosure of their place of worship, or that he procured it of ''them'', but at the grog-shops that were established at, or ''near'' if you please, their camp-ground. It was far from our intention to charge the Methodists with retailing ardent spirits while professedly met for worship of their God. Neither did we intend to implicate ''them'' by saying that "the intemperate, the dissolute, &c. resort to their meetings."&mdash;And if so we have been understood by any one of that society, we assure them they have altogether mistaken our meaning.<ref>''Palmyra Register'' (July 5, 1820): 2.</ref>
</blockquote>

===The Methodists were clearly holding camp meeting prior to their acquisition of property on Vienna road in 1821===

*The ''Palmya Register'' clearly records that the Methodist's were holding a camp meeting in June 1820. This contradicts the assertion that "Since the Methodists did not acquire property on the Vienna Road until July 1821, the camp meetings were almost certainly held after that date."
*The newspaper did not report on this meeting directly&mdash;the camp meeting only became notable when a complaint was made by the Methodists regarding the association of the meeting with the death of a drunken man. This contradicts the critics' assertion that the [[No reference to First Vision in 1830s publications?|absence of mention of a camp meeting or "revival" in the local newspaper means that one never occurred]].  
* If the meetings were common then they were not news&mdash;they were only reported when something unusual happened, like a death.  This suggests that not only were Methodists meeting locally in 1820 (something proven by the ''Palmyra Register'' account), but such meetings were probably a frequent occurrence.
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[[pt:Pergunta: Quando é que os metodistas adquirir propriedade perto de Palmyra para realizar as suas reuniões de acampamento?]]